3.03.2008

Is there more to these stories?

The United States has fired missles at civilian targets in Somalia.
"The strike destroyed two houses -- killing three women and three children, and wounding another 20 people -- Dhoobley's District Commissioner Ali Nur Ali Dherre told CNN. Dherre said the remains of the missiles were marked "US K.""
I'm sure there's another side to this story, but the loss of life seems unnecessary. Is this defensible?

Also, what's up with the Bush administration's policy on torture? I tend to agree with this New York Times editorial. Torture is beneath us. Let'r rip, Dave.

8 comments:

Dave said...

Torture should certainly not be practiced by our military or law enforcement. I also believe torture is not being practiced by our military.

I started watching the movie Hostel. That movie contains torture. Not letting prisoners sleep 8 hours a night, or simulating drowning for 15 second intervals would severely limit the effectiveness of our armed forces from doing their job.

I trust these people to act within the honor of their positions. I also tend to err on the side of their judgment at the time until all evidence pans out. I certainly will not cede the "line" to the editors of the NY Times.

Zachary said...

Dave,

"simulating drowning for 15 second intervals would severely limit the effectiveness of our armed forces from doing their job."

Severely limit?

Apart from whether or not this is moral, what evidence demonstrates this is true? I have heard quite the opposite from high ranking military officials, some of them with good standing in the Bush administration. Where would I go to learn about this?

We'll have to tackle the morality question sometime later, but I will preempt the conversation by saying that we can never do evil even if it may result in some perceived good.

Dave said...

I challenged you to look at the example of KSM already, but here is one such example:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjNkYmU2NWVlOWE4MTU5MjhiOGNmMWUwMjdjZjU2Zj

"I have heard quite the opposite from high ranking military officials, some of them with good standing in the Bush administration." If you look at the actual semantics of what they are saying, they are actually saying that "torture" does not work, but most will not even entertain defining waterboarding as torture.

Zachary said...

OK. So I'll assume for the conversation that waterboarding works. Does that mean we should do it? Well, only if it's moral. Is it moral? Well we could debate that too, I'm sure.

I would argue that if it cannot be resolved, the position we ought to take is that it is immoral. We must err on the side of doubt.

I'd prefer the United States was not associated with a technique that was used by the Khmer Rouge.

Dave said...

I would prefer the men and women in the military making these decisions and have an official policy that we don't torture. It's a sensitive topic that we shouldn't advertise what we do and do not do.

Zachary said...

That seems sensible.

Dave said...

Coincidently, it was also Gov. Romney's position on the issue that McCain got very angry about. Regardless of who wins in the fall, I'm already excited about the 2012 primary. Romney, Pawlenty, Sanford, Jindal. Four great governors, four great men, four people who I would have a really hard time choosing who to vote for, but four people who I would love to vote for President.

Zachary said...

I'm interested in this Jindal guy.